January 29, 2008
Waterway Gas and Wash Company invited the Residents of University Heights to attend a meeting to explain how their gas station/car wash/convenience store will operate. They wanted to reassure us residents that it will be an operation we can live with.
The hours of operation will be (if approved by our Council members): Seven (7) days a week, from hopefully (for them) 7:00 am until 10:00 pm for the gas station, and from 7:00 am until 6:00-7:00 pm for the car wash. The convenience store (that may or may not sell lottery tickets, no alcohol for sure) will be open for the hours of operation of the gas stations. So traffic on our streets and Warensville Center Road will only go from 7:00 am until 10:00 pm. So we can rest the few hours the place is closed, right? Wrong: two or three times a week they will refill tha pump tanks, and that will be done at night, but the trucks are guaranteed to be noiseless... Have you ever seen or heard of a noiseless truck? When asked if they could predict that there will be no traffic on the two residential streets the answer was: "No, Madam, we cannot tell you that, there will be traffic". Let's talk about the $58,000 in tax revenues, it was just a number put up there, they said. There could be more or less, they don't know, they haven't done the projections... so our Council is buying something even without knowing what can come from it? Who buys that? Another issue: I still don't know if it is going to be a profitable business or not. Apparently, when it comes down to traffic congestion, the business will not be that lucrative, if we talk about the advantages for the City, suddenly, the business will be profitable. I asked several times which way was it, and they kept shifting the answers. Anyway, the two managers moving from St. Louis to come over here, will buy my house and live there, as if I buy that!
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19 comments:
http://denver.yourhub.com/HighlandsRanch/Stories/News/General-News/Story~19118.aspx
We totally agree with your comments and will be attending the Council meeting. -Renee and Dave on Fenwood.
Here are some of our thoughts, in addition to the ones you already have. I am willing to march with protest signs or whatever it takes. Count me in.
1. The other 2 gas stations in UH are not near residential streets. The gas station that is already on Warrensville Center road is PLENTY.
2. This "car wash" will have to compete with Al Paul. It will get little business. What will a gas station/car wash look like after it goes out of business????
3. Whole Foods and University Square are attractive and upscale. Having a gas station on that corner would cheapen the look of the area.
4. I love living in such a convenient, walkable area. I think the fumes and traffic from a car wash will ruin the walkability of the corner.
5. I would not even CONSIDER buying a house behind or beside or EVEN CLOSE to a gas station!!!! The noise, fumes, and unattractiveness would be a real blight to this city!
6. WOULD ANY OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS HONESTLY CONSIDER LIVING BEHIND A GAS STATION!????!???!?!
7. This is all about money, NOT THE WELLBEING OF THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY! Why not try to build something that would attract RESIDENTS to this city? We want human neighbors, not commercial neighbors. I agree with others that a gas station/convenience store would just lure undesirable people after dark. People have been murdered in Cleveland Heights at a convenience store after dark. What is this Council THINKING????
Sincerely,
Renee and Dave Morrell
2375 Fenwood
There certainly are some problems here but unfortunately
1. The zoning of the parcel does permit this type of use. (Your campaign has identified this as a major problem for these areas. If the project does become a NO go then you, and everyone supporting you must pressure the city to change that zoning!)
2. The one way that waterway's plan does NOT meet the code (and hence cannot be approved as is) is the required 20 foot buffer between the operation and the residences. (If you stop the variance at the Board of Zoning Appeals and Council - then the project dies.)
3. One more thing to think about -- waterway might try to buy those two houses next to the site so they do have enough land. However, that land is zoned RESIDENTIAL and without changing the zoning on the site, they still could NOT build.
I must applaud your tenacity and your willingness to work to save your neighborhood!!!
we now have all the services proposed by Waterway Gas.The facilities offered by Waterway Gas would undermine the upgrading influence of the new stores and the hard work of the citizens to maintain the friendly and safe residential reputation of University Heights.
Paul and Erica
University Heights
I oppose the car wash, however, has anyone heard what other business may purchase that property should the city not grant the variances to Waterworks? Will McDonalds purchase the property without any varinaces? Which use would be worse?
dear Anonymous that wrote on Monday, february 4, 2008.
Mac Donald's,and other chains, do not want to open a site on that lot, because it does not provide enough space for the drive through...
Furthermore, it is our duty, from now on, to have a say on what it is going to be developed there. We will attend all zoning meetings and council meetings from now on. We learned our lesson. We hope the rest of University Heights did as well. With more civic involvement we can make things better for UH!
Right now, the building on that lot is empty. While the owner pays some property tax, the city gets no income tax. This proposal will remove an empty, unsightly building. And while these are probably minimum wage jobs, they still pay income tax. Now at 2.5%
As far as competing with Al Paul, that business may be destroyed when South Euclid proceeds with a new project over there.
I must point out that most folks have cars. Cars require gas. So another gas station provides competition and may have a lower price.
I've been around this town for almost 20 years. I can't recall seeing anyone wash their car in their yard. So folks must be going to car washes. Why is it OK to have a car wash in some other area but not here? I don't hang out at car washes, but there can't be alot of noise.
The two homes to the west of the property will gain a ten foot buffer and a new, nicer wall.
If lighting is a concern, there are fixtures out there that only shine their light on the ground where it belongs. The street lights give off far more light polution.
Most of what I've read here are not items that can be argued in court. If the site is already zoned commercial, there really is no reason the city could deny this use. Someone mentioned a buffer. As I said, the site plans call for an extra ten feet from the homes to a new wall. Gas stations exist in many residential areas. What makes this site special?
Good luck. But I think this would be an improvement over what is there now.
I fully understand that those persons responsible for this website and blog are against the new business. But I think those folks are telling fairy tales themselves.
Many of the complaints are simply unfounded. It is speculation that a car wash/gas station will bring waves of crime, untolerable noise, enought light pollution to confuse migrating animals, traffic tieups that make LA and DC look nice, etc.
The into on the main website, is over-the-top with gloom and doom.
Even this blog is set up so that folks that may wish to discuss this topic fairly, have a difficult time. Each of the main topics here were posted by those who are dead set against this.
I ask that folks go by the site. Look over the property as it stands now. Try to imagine what the new buisness will look like.
And open-minded approach could be enlightening.
There is really a 'mob mentality' here. Educated people should try to seperate emotion from fact. Look at both sides, the business has a website, wwww.waterway.com. They have a special section on this project. Look it over. Read all the posts here. Make up your own mind.
Don't just join in the witch hunt.
I found more 'fairy tales.' But they are on the no gas station site.
A link 'untold story' shows a front view of the store. But the author asks, 'where are the pumps.?' Maybe they simply left them out so folks could see what the main building will look like. But the author makes it seem like intentional deceit. I find that hard to believe.
Another link shows pictures, bad ones, of another Waterway site. Then it asks, "How is something this big going to fit the site." Could it be that the pictures of a larger site and that this one will be a smaller operation because it is a smaller site? Again, someone is looking for a conspiracy.
A third link shows a Waterway site drawing. The write up complains about lines of cars, noisy trucks, and a 2 and 1/2 story building blocking out the sun. I'll agree that on a certain number of days there may be cars on Landsdale. This could happen when the weather has been bad for awhile and then there is finally a nice day. Certainly not everyday as the writer will have you believe. I don't know when trucks deliver gas, but I do know that I usually see them in during the day when traffic is light. I guess it all depends on how much gas this place sells. Maybe the folks that live by Fairmount Circle could add some real info.
As to the building blocking out the sun light, come on. The building will be to the east of the two homes. The sun has to clear University Square before any rays reach those houses. By that time, I'm sure the sun is high enough in the sky to shine in the windows of the homes.
Anothe link shows many houses with 'for rent' signs.' Funny that none of them have phone numbers. I guess that those houses are not for rent. It's just an attempt to cast fear into those that look at the picture. A message of "if you build it, we will go." Fear mongering is a weapon used by those that don't have a true argument.
The 'articles' link is really just your editorials. So please call them that. The truth will gain you more respect. See 'fear mongering' above.
Most of the fairy tales seem to come from those that originated this site.
Thank God there are still people having dreams and fairy tales to believe in and to fight for...
Even if I'm so far away I support your action.
Remember Bob Marley: Get up stand up, stand up for your rights, get up stand up, don't give up the fight!
BYE! Lucia (Bologna, Italy)
Wow! I just read the rant on the no gas station page. From my perspective, the author sounds nuts.
There are several things that are off base. First and foremost, that property is zoned commercial. Waterway is a commercial enterprise. So the city cannot stop them from building unless there would be some real impact on the city. As I have read the complaints, they are unfounded. On what basis, leave your emotions in check, can the city refuse.
If council refused Waterway, it's my opinion that the city opens itself up to be sued. I think Waterway would win. Then the city would still have the business and have to pay legal fees and damages.
The author commets that the mayor doesn't know procedure. Maybe she asked for that information for the benefit of the audiance. How many of those in attendance know how the system works?
Toward the end of the piece, the author makes a threat. "It's not over!" It reminded me of a scene from the movie Animal House.
Any citizens that want to stop their temper tantrums and do something need to run for office. Put yourself in that chair. But that requires real work. It's far eaiser to rant and rave online then it is to really examine and issue and make an intellegent choice.
Ya know, I've posted several comments on this site. Only one person has responded to any of my points. They may be right, or they may be wrong, but there really is no debate here. Only folks jumping up an down and acting childish.
we now have all the services proposed by Waterway Gas.
So, you're in favor of protected monopolies, and against competition, which benefits consumers, comrade?
If I was the current owner of the property, facing this juggernaut against my right to profitably dispose of my own property, I'd turn around and rent space in the current building to a check cashing shop, a body piercing boutique, a bail bondsman, head shop, and a pawn shop, just for spite, none of which would require any variances. Consider the cost before you start a war.
I would like to respond to bluestone 4181 and say that they have no idea of what they are talking about. Why would you want to come to a city that doesn't want you. Do you want a carwash and gas station in your back yard? Al Paul is not going anywhere with the new development going on and if you want to deny lineups...go look at Al Paul. We don't want you, we don't need you and you are feeding us a line of bs. Also, our mayor doesn't know what she is talking about..do you think after 30 years she might know what the proper procedure is...how much are you guys paying her off...there is an investigative reporter involved and we will get to the bottom of this scam
Why would you want to come to a city that doesn't want you.
Because they believe they can make a profit. They know something about human behavior that you don't. Once they're in, provided they deliver what they say they will, and work to keep the business clean and attractive, in other words, if they keep the sky from falling as you claim it will, most residents will vote with their pocketbooks for convenience over principle. Most people only care what's in it for them, and then primarily in the short term.
Why else would you all elect a Republican mayor for so many years, and then, when conservative principles like capitalism and robust property rights don't benefit you personally, start clamoring for Soviet style government intervention in the marketplace?
The thing is that we always thought that nothing could be done to stop this process of commercial invasion. Residents tried to oppose the University Square parking lot monstrosity from happening, but they were too few, we even did not know what was going to happen. Had we known, as when we were informed of what was going to happen with Waterway, we would have supported them, as strongly. This time we got involved and we involved with publicity, clamor, passion. People listened, and the movement started.
This means that the machine we set in motion, will not stop with Waterway. You are right, we should have done something sooner, and we didn't, but better later than never, right?
The thing is that we always thought that nothing could be done to stop this process of commercial invasion.
There is nothing to be done if you believe in the founding principles of this country. There is nothing to be done without encouraging the encroaching collectivism, statism, and paternalist authoritarianism that, if allowed to continue, will one day turn the Heights into a clone of East Cleveland. Why do people flee inner ring suburbs? Taxes, bureaucracy, and onerous regulations; in other words, too much government. They move out to townships which are severely constrained by state law in what they can do - they can't even levy income taxes. So why do people who claim to believe in self reliance, personal responsibility, and individualism let this happen to their community? You're seeing it right here. Somebody tries to engage in basic capitalism, and someone else doesn't like it, so they demand that local government intervene. First you let them tell businesses what they can do with their property, and before long, they will tell you. In Cleveland Heights, families have been forced from their homes for bearing one too many children - about ten years ago, stable married couple, both college educated, at least one a productive professional, had their fifth child, and the city told the father he couldn't live in the home any more because of City Hall has placed a numerical occupancy limit on every home in the city. Every night around 9, a green and white car stopped by to make sure Dad was headed to a hotel for the night. They had to move to a bigger home, and you can bet it wasn't in CH. THAT is where this sort of thing leads. If you use the hammer of government to trample someone else's rights, sooner or later, it will be turned upon you.
Residents tried to oppose the University Square parking lot monstrosity from happening,
Now THAT should have been opposed, not because people didn't like it, but because the city, rather than the free market, facilitated it. I spoke out against it on that basis, but nobody wants to make the effort to understand such principles and their long term impact. The same goes for Cedar Center - local businesses that served their neighbors had their leases trashed so the mayor could build high rent boutique shopping that most residents won't be able to afford (Whole Foods should properly be called Whole Paycheck) If Cedar Center had been left to the free market, Waterway might have found part of Cedar Center a more favorable location, and you wouldn't be facing this now. Corporations spend millions to gain goodwill - if there were a viable available location that wouldn't generate this opposition, they'd take it in a heartbeat, but between Beryl and Georgine's big plans, the current location was all they left for the free market. So you see, the Big Brother intervention you seek now is what caused your problem in the first place. It will always hurt you more than it will help you. You'd think that this country's degeneration over the past 40 years would have taught more people that.
You are right, we should have done something sooner, and we didn't, but better later than never, right? .
Except that you are doing exactly the wrong thing. Waterway came here completely of their own volition - it represents a chance to show city hall that businesses WILL invest without tax abatements, subsidies, and sweetheart deals wrought with abusive emminent domain. This deal needs to go well for City Hall to learn that lesson. If they don't learn that lesson soon, there will be a lot more derelict vacant commercial properties in the city. Waterway is way better than the alternative. The smart move would be to sit work to set up an accountability plan, where, if there Waterway is noisy, smelly, shines lights in people's yards/homes, there is a schedule of fines, similar to what the cable franchises face. Work for traffic regulation to limit carwash traffic on sidestreets. Work to make this work, and teach city government that the free market can work. Either Waterway will prosper while meeting these conditions, which is great, or it will fail, in which case you'll want a good local climate for business, so the property doesn't sit idle long.
The rational sound calm, and offer open forums. The irrational sound fanatical, and close their minds to counter arguments.
This is not a one sided argument.
I am a resident in UH with no ties to the government, no ties to waterway, and this site has lost its touch. Where you were once organized and inspiring, you have become scattered and paranoid.
The people that live there, live near a commercial district. If you want peace and quite move to the country. You live 40' from Warrensville and more noise is going to bother you?
I wish you the best in your efforts, as it is the American way, but take a step back and regroup. Take a deep breath.
The guy screaming louder is losing the argument.
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